Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. 1) Centerline of engine and transmission are the same on LS block and all trans that mount to it. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. Ninth 0.69 Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. Powerglide (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), TH350 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), TH400 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP), TH200-4R (bellhousing pattern - BOP, Fit-all), TH700-R4 /4L60 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet). The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. Indirectly affects shift control. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? vehicle weights. *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. Note, some customers may complain of a converter type whine noise coming from the transmission. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. Hi Jeff, That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. if (yr!=2012) Required fields are marked *. It is a dog in the summer time. How quickly time passes by. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! Before we get started, lets cover the basics. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. But it does take a bit of experience to not damage anything on the valve body or inside the . Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. There may or may not be codes associated with these complaints. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). Ford describes their two different shift strategies as single and double step shifts. Im thinking 3.73. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. to 885 ft. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. TIPM Problems! - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. Account. Shift the transmission to Reverse. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. var d=new Date(); The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Stock capacity . As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. Seventh 1.00 Gilbert, Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. Fourth 1.80 For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. (incl. That year, for the first time, the 10R80 ten-speed transmission was available with the 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6, 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, or 5.0-liter Coyote V8 engine options and was even an option with their popular Raptor model. Online Buyer's Guide None of the above categories describe me. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? Your car is quick! Its the best of both worlds. The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. Cart Why is that? (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. NonStop-Transmission. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. The customer approves a teardown. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. Copyright 2023 - Transmission Repair Cost Guide. The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. The replacement solenoid band number must match the band number of the solenoid being replaced. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. It began replacing the 4L60E transmission in many vehicles starting in the 2006 model year. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. Concerns can range from any of the following: These drivability concerns can be mistaken for transmission malfunctions. Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF Sixth 1.28 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. Thought's? 2020 10l80 4wd an I one to convert to 2wd. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. $499.00. yr=d.getFullYear(); Fifth 1.52 Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. The ball bearing remained tight on the stator shaft support housing. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. Will this hurt the trani? - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. Thanks for the question! However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. If we change to the latest GM 10-speed automatic it has a 4.70:1 First gear and is factory matched with a 2.85:1 rear gear. If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. The 6L80 (and similar 6L90) is a six-speed automatic transmission built by General Motors at its Willow Run Transmission plant in Ypsilanti, MI.It was introduced in late 2005, and is very similar in design to the smaller 6L45/6L50, produced at GM Powertrain in Strasbourg, France.It features clutch to clutch shifting, eliminating the one-way clutches used on older transmission designs. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. This is a normal and desired behavior. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. Exceptional torque rating. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. RPO Code MF6 The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. Related Articles Are you ready to rock in 2023? Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. Comes with a complete harness and the necessary software to program the TCM-2650 Module. Shift the transmission to Neutral. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. So why does the JMBX converter have this chronic problem? While converter failures are not uncommon with other transmission families, you are thinking that this is really becoming a pattern for the 6L80, 6L90. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. Applications. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . By Wayne Colonna. Legal/Privacy. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. and the maximum output torque is 664 ft. lbs. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. 10L80 Transmission. What came first: the chicken or the egg? Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. It has factory size tires 275/55/20. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. Thats a great question. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. 4. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . Thought's? Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. or Best Offer . Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. Most of us have either seen or heard of the new 10-speed transmission Ford is offing behind the 2.3L EcoBoost, 2.7L V6, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L gas, and 3.0L Power Stroke Diesel engines. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. The solenoids can be replaced separately, but only with the same type of solenoid. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. That certainly holds true for the 6L80, 6L90. The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. You know where this is going yup, its the converter. Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. The 6L80 was used in trucks, particularly in the GMT 900 platform. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) Did they release much info about it on the trucks? I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. If you have your heart set on a six-speed automatic to back your LS, consider TCI's 6X transmission. You are browsing camaro6. Complaints of erratic shifting, poor shift quality, missed shifts, and other shifting and TCC control complaints are becoming more common with these units. 10L80 vs 10L90 Transmissions. TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. The button for Tap control is on the top of the shifter, making it easy to use in both left and right hand drive vehicles. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. Powertrain Expo Copyright 2012 In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality.
6l80 vs 10l80 transmission
6l80 vs 10l80 transmission
6l80 vs 10l80 transmission